Roland Forums

I have a NEW Fantom G7....wow....overwhelming. My problem is I'm trying to import some standard midi files (downloaded from the internet). Edit them..i.e change the instrument assignments, delete/mute tracks not required, adjust tempo..etc. This part is not a problem. The problem is saving / writing the information to allow me to recall the saved settings as a song and play a piano part and sing along to the saved backing track.
I have gone through the 'write' procedure for saving the 'Studio set', 'Song' and 'project'. But the 'saved' song does not contain the editted information, it is always back at its original state......I'm obviously missing something somewhere...or can I not do what I'm trying to do...?????
PLEASE HELP.
Many thanks

Mr Rockgod.

I assume the SMF's have program change info embedded in them.
You might need to trim that out info first.
Does it load correctly, and then change?
Sometimes sysex data is used to switch an instrument to a GM mode.
So I'm wondering if that's throwing a spanner in the works too.

Do you access to a software based program on your computer?

thanks for the reply.....

ahhh....embedded program change...I have no idea what that is...is there a way to find out...??
The muting of tracks stays in the saved version, but the reassignment of instruments does not.
I have no idea what sysex data is....sorry I'm a complete novice.
i don't have editing software on my computer....
thanks for your patience...

Phil

Hello Phil,

I don't know much about the sequencer on board the G7. If you can, scroll through the separate tracks on the sequencer section and look for an instruction marked PG or PC followed by a number between 0 and 127 (some show this as 1 to 128). I suspect these are what's causing your grief.
They may be proceeded by another set of instructions CC 0 and a number, then CC 32 and a number. These are bank select messages.
A program change message would then follow.

sysex = system exclusive.
Special MIDI instructions, normally make, & model specific. Sysex is normally used for data back-up, or loading in data.
I say normally, as a GM reset isn't really make & model specific. Some manufactures take this further by forcing the instrument into an extended GM mode, Roland have GS, Yamaha XG.
If the MIDI file has been tailored for these, and the instrument supports it, it will set up the machine accordingly. If the instrument doesn't, the information will be ignored.

If you like, send me one of your MIDI files, 2080 has a GM mode, if it has got embedded program changes, it should set up the 2080 to play it as intended.

I'm sure once you've started to learn how to get around your machine, and it's sequencer you will start to understand how MIDI does what it does.

Many thanks again for your reply......

I won't pretend to understand your last message, but it sounds good to me.
If it isn't too much trouble I can send you the midi file I have been experimenting with.
It maybe that it is just this midi file that is the problem.
I need to know where to send it....and how...???

Can you suggest an editing software program I could use which may help me...

Hello Phil.

I've sent you a Personal Message (PM) with my email address. You should be able to email your MIDI file as an attachment.

Software, well it depends on how much, & what you want it to do.
Also depends on what kind of computer you have, Mac or PC.

There are a few 'open source' sequencers around. There might be suitable for tweaking your MIDI files.

I'm currently on a learning curve of my own with a program called Sonar, by Cakewalk (& Roland).
I discovered today that it's not sending a certain set of instructions to my JD-990, bank select. I've had to edit the data to do it myself. I needed the JD's manual to find this out, only to discover Roland have lost it. It used to be in their ftp files, but they have been moving things about, so perhaps it will resurface. Hope so, it was one of their best modules.
I've tracked one down on a site in the end. It has been a frustrating day.

You can get cut down versions of the major programs used in studios.
Cakewalk starts with 'Music Creator 5'. I am unable to find out if it imports & exports to standard MIDI files, if it does (you may need to ask them) all well and good as it's affordable.
Sonar starts at Home Studio, and moves all the way up to Sonar 8.5 Producer.

Steinberg's Cubase is now owned by Yamaha, currently at version 5. The cut down version was Cubasis, but that seems to be no more..

Logic Audio is Mac based only these days.

There are others, but the 3 above are the ones that I know handle MIDI.

Keep studying that G7 manual it is more than likely the on board sequencer has the editing features you after, you just haven't come across them yet.

Hello Phil,

I received your email, and the attached MIDI file.
I can now confirm there are indeed program change messages within the file.
As a result, my 2080 played a version of Bad Moon Rising by Creedence Clearwater Revival.
I've heard many MIDI files, and this falls in to the same category, it's a passable version, but the drum programming is a little simplistic.
That said, I'm a drummer, and Mr Joe Public wouldn't bat an eyelid at it.


I've been checking out some of the 'freeware' MIDI sequencers. All I can say is, you get what you pay for. Some are, shall we say "not great".
Reaper looks very good, has a 30 day trial, but I haven't found SMF support, which is a shame.

I shall keep looking for something suitable, I shall work on the assumption you are using a PC.

Cheers,
Paul

Found on a visit to Roland Clan forums. Might be useful..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7P8AGDTl-FU&feature=player_embedded

tried to look at the youtube video...says it can't be found...!!!!

We have just found a cd that came with the G7.....there is an editor and librarian programme to install on the laptop....might let me do something through there...
what do you think...?????

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7P8AGDTl-FU

Try again, with the above link. I copied and pasted in my browser (Firefox) it seemed to work.
The above link was generated by YouTube so have another go.
The editor gets into the heart of the G7, for tweaking patches, or if you are really brave, creating them.
It should allow you to set up 'studio sets'.
My not run on later versions of Windows (Vista, win7).

The librarian stores patches and the like for back-up and future use.

Paul

Thanks for the video link...I can play this one.
But....I have seen this one...in fact, this is the video which I followed step by step to import into the G7.
I even wrote it all out as a word document and laminated it for my mate Rob (the keyboard player).
We have connected the laptop to the G7 and opened the G7 editor....!!!!
Now then....There is a section on the interface labelled "midi messages", with a string of text, similar to what you suggested in an earlier message.
Unfortunately, there is nothing in the help file explaining what these messages mean.
The messages obviously mean nothing to me....next time we connect it up I will note them down and sent them to you...if you don't mind. Perhaps they are something that you are familiar with.
I'm guessing but, these messages seem to be the problem.

many thanks

Phil

Hello Phil,

Feel free to send'um.
Any info is useful, the more I know, the better the chance I can try and resolve your issue.


Here's a possibly related link:
http://www.rolandforums.co.uk/forums/viewthread/999/

It relates more to sending MIDI messages out from the Fantom however.

Paul

I have something else.....

I have installed Sony ACID Pro 7 software on my laptop.

There are settings within the software to either:

insert program change keyframe
reset all program change keyframes
remove all program change keyframes

This sounds a little more promising...do you think.

I'm seeing Rob (and the G7) tomorrow (thursday)

Unless you know any different I am going to attempt a bit of "trial and error" theory with the 'reset' and 'remove' program change keyframe options....!!!!!

Can you give me a bit of a clue into the difference between the 2 options...???

I won't be doing it until tomorrow evening, so if you could reply before then it would be appreciated.

I'm feeling good about this...hope it isn't false optimism....LOL...

many thanks

Phil

Hello Phil,

I know very little about Acid Pro, even less when it refers to keyframes.

That said, the term 'program change' is certainly encouraging.
The "remove all program change keyframes" sounds like a nuke option.
You should then be able to load in your saved project or studio set without ant influence from your MIDI file.
Not sure on "reset all program change keyframes" would do, unless it defaults them to a typical starting point of piano, bass, strings, brass, lead sounds, and a standard drum kit.
The "insert program change" keyframe, would allow you to send your program changes, to selectpatches remotely, if it has bank select options too, then it should be able to access any of the banks of patches stored within the G7. Be it preset, user, or other memories.


Feel good, I'm sure you are the right track. You were more than likely right the first time, it's just the program change messages with the MIDI file undid your hard work.

Paul


Your "trial & error approach" is one of the best ways of learning what your instrument, and MIDI can do.