It's very off the radar..
Not something you are likely to come across.. but there is nothing to stop you trying. You might even call it your signature sound.
The only hurdle in your way.. getting the microphone into the pedals.
You mention a acoustic pedal which can act as a mic pre-amp. Which one?
Would it be any cheaper than using a stand alone mic pre-amp;
http://www.gear4music.com/Recording-and-Computers/ART-Tube-MP-Mic-Preamp/1GU
Once the signal has been pre-amped, then any effect unit, be it guitar pedal, guitar multi effects unit, or rack mounted multi effect unit could be used.
You might find some guitar pedals have a somewhat limited frequency response, so your nice crisp hi-hats aren't so crisp anymore.
Likewise, the microphone you use will have an influence. Condensers tend to be used, but there's nothing to stop you using a dynamic. I've seen SM57's used, I seem to remember John Bonham's kit was done that way.
Final link in the chain...
Getting it heard, normally the output of the pedals would go to a guitar amp, I would assume you would want this to go to the main sound system, and back to you via a monitor.
This will require a DI box, to take the high impedance, unbalanced signal out of the pedal and make it a balanced low impedance signal suitable for the multi-core and FOH desk
There is a product which I think would be ideal for you, but it is not discontinued. Have a look at this:
http://www.roland.co.uk/products/productdetails.aspx?p=607
It's the Boss GS10, a fantastic effects unit and audio interface. This will accept a mic input, and be controlled by pedals (effects on/off etc) and cn output for ether a guitar amp or a line level system (PA or digital recorder etc)
Also the GT10/B could handle a mic plugged in (dynamic only). Check out this video of a guy called DUB FX. http://www.sonicstate.com/news/2009/06/15/lims09-dub-fx-beatboxer-boss-rc50-and-gt10b/
It's different to what you want to do as he is a beat boxer, but he uses lots of effets from a GT10B to effect his voice, and obviously he plugs in a mic. Check what he is getting from it, it may give you some ideas.
That's great - our bassist has a couple of SM57s so I'm sure I could borrow one... and I was going to need to get my own multi-channel DI box soon anyway...
I've been wondering how drummers using a td-12 brain with offboard effects units put each of their four outputs into and out of an effects box (so they are still separate and can be mixed by the sound personage), as they seem to me to be designed for guitarists and have just one input. So I looked at the connectors on the GS-10 (which looks great). It has:
GUITAR/BASS INPUT
MIC INPUT (XLR/1/4" TRS)
AUX INPUT (L/R), OUTPUT (L/R)
GUITAR AMP OUT
PHONES
EXP PEDAL/CTL1,2
DIGITAL OUT
USB
MIDI OUT
MIDI IN
AC IN
Am I right in thinking that the presence of guitar in, guitar out and separate L and R aux in and outs means you could route three outputs from your td-12 through it?
I'm guessing if so you would be limited to having only one set of effects settings (is that what a 'patch' is?) for all three, but it would be a good start!
Your guess is correct. You may only use one set of effects at any one time, but you may have 3 channels worth of effects setup for instant switching. This is not 3 audio channels, just 3 effects sets which you can switch between instantly.
Ah ok, so if you were putting say kick, snare and hats through it you couldn't play with the effects on all of them at once? Just switch between having the effects on each one of them? That's not so good :o(
I think I've figured it out now anyway - we've got a little four track mini-mixer, so we could just take that to gigs and give it to the sound person to use as a submixer for the drums, put any effects box between the submixer and the desk and control it with a footswitch on a long lead. Or actually, we have a sort of unofficial sound man who pays attention to our levels and berates the official soundman so he could change patches for us between songs.
A minimixer would be good anyway actually as what with two vocals, glockenspiel, 'electronic bongos' (two pd-8s externally triggering the SPD-S) violin, bass, piano, the drums and the hihats we'll be running out of inputs to the desk soon...
Your guess is correct. You may only use one set of effects at any one time, but you may have 3 channels worth of effects setup for instant switching. This is not 3 audio channels, just 3 effects sets which you can switch between instantly.
Hi again,
I was just looking at this more carefully and I realised you weren't saying quite what I had taken you to be saying.
Sorry if I'm being stupid but just wanted to clarify absolutely... there's two separate issues (for simplicity I'll just talk about applying effects to kick and snare, and leave hats out of it):
Issue 1) whether or not you can drum with any one single set of effect settings on both your snare and your kick at once (which I thought you could because of the presence of seperate aux in L and R). The snare (coming in from the td-8 brain) would be panned all the way to the left (the hats from the brain would be panned all the way to the right), and the kick, coming from the SPD-S, would be panned all the way to the right. What is important here is that when the sounds come out the other side of the GS-10 (through the aux output L and R), they are STILL SEPARATE, so that the sound person can then mix them. I'm guessing if one's panned hard left and the other hard right they would be.
Issue 2) whether or not you can drum with (for instance) one kind of reverb on your snare and another kind of reverb on your kick, both at once.
I had thought you were saying the answer to both 1) and 2) is no, but looking at it again, am I right in thinking that the answer to 1) could be yes? Sorry if this is a bit laborious!
From recollection of this unit you may only use one input type at any time So you may only use the line in or mic in or guitar in, not all three at once. I could be wrong though, because I never tried it, and the uinit has been discontinued for some time. This being the case you would be correct in taking my first answer of 'no' to both your questions.
But surely if you're just using the aux in, albeit the L and the R, you are only actually using one input type. I think I'll wait for one second hand on eBay, try it out and if it doesn't work sell it again.
I can see a slight floor in you plan..
Anything 'effected' on the processor is likely to appear on the both outputs of the processor.
So if you process the kick on the left input, it will appear on both L & R of the processor.
You can get 'true' stereo processors, usually delays, and reverb units.
With all the weird and wonderful things you want to do I suggest you invest in a small mixer that can have separate outs.
You can then route a kick channel, snares, cymbals, other. The main outs can be your processed signals (providing you don't route the sub sections to main out). The advantage here, using the aux send of the mixer to the signal processor. You can control want is processed.
It also allows 'real instruments' to be processed as the mixer can use microphones directly.
Dare I suggest a TD-20 module in place of the TD-12's? Reason being it has addition effects programs on board, the TD-12 has the ambience processing, the TD-20 has a MFX unit as well.
I hate to think how long it's going to take setting up all these leads, cables, processors, mixers, microphones, not forgetting power, or and monitoring, can't forget that.
Another fact to consider:
The drummers drum pad system in the band I work with died on the last gig. The drum module has lost all it's memories, I think the freezing weather, and the fact it was in the van has nuked it's brain.
So don't rely on it working 100% of the time. Have a backup in case the tech decides to bite back.
Thanks for the reply, that's really helpful. So it's impossible with the GS-10 to keep kick and snare sounds separate as they come out of the outputs - that's what I understand from what you said, rather than just that the effects will come out of both outputs (though I know that's true too).
Sorry it's a bit confusing that all this is still under the 'effects on an acoustic hi-hat' thread when we've moved on from that now(!) - the thing I'm really getting at here is how to keep sounds separate and mixable, as that is so important.
Can you give me an example of a 'true' stereo processor? I might even buy one! Many of the things the GS-10 does I don't need - e.g. the onboard speakers or the computer interface (which is a massive part of it!) Reverb and delay are really the most important, though distortion would be nice too.
I know the TD-20 has onboard MFX - but I just can't afford one! At the moment it's going to be long enough before I can afford to get the TD-12 (at the moment I'm using the TD-8)!
It's not for nothing that it has been said of this band: 'Imagine Lizzie Siddal loaded up on Laudanum atop a Wellsian time-travelling contraption, spreading subversion and sedition, and you have some inkling of the maddening ambition of this undertaking. Precision-planned electronica'.
Anything between Behringer's VIRTUALIZER PRO DSP2024P (NB not all the programs are true stereo), to Eventide's DSP4000B. To suit those with small, and very big pockets.
I've heard that Roland make a few!
This might be interesting, it's cheap, but I'll be honest, I know very little about it.
http://www.bem-music.com/list.pl?id=112868
If the info provided is true it might be very interesting indeed, especially for the mad scientist in you.
