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ROLAND D50 MIDI OUT Problem
Posted: 11 April 2012 07:37 PM   [ Ignore ]  
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Hi guys.
I have a D50 with a strange behavior when I try to Dump it's patch data to the Computer. It starts sending the patches but ends the package with invalid sysx messages and causes the computer not to receive the whole patches properly. In result no patch list is displayed and nothing can be done.

I've already tried SysexD50 and D50 Librarian software. Same result with both. even on different computers using two types of MIDI interfaces.
Keyboard's Midi input is OK and I can easily send patches from computer to it.
So far i'm pretty sure that something is wrong in the keyboard.

I need to add that the keyboard sends some some wrong or sometimes excessive sysx messages to the PC when I play a VST with it.

Do you guys have ever had such an experience? If anybody is out there that can help me with this problem I'll be so glad to provide some info and patches instead.
Any help is appreciated.
Cheers.
Ciro
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Posted: 11 April 2012 10:16 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]  
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The D-50 can do some strange things MIDI wise..

Has your D-50 been ok in the past, is this strange behaviour a recent thing?

Are your sending the patch dump as a one way dump, or in handshake mode?


There is a mode which dumps sysex on each patch change, this could be what's causing your VST headache, as normally the D-50 doesn't send sysex while played normally.
I will have to power up my D-50 to remember how to check the setting, I think it's within the MIDI pages, but will be easier to find when I use it.

I will get back to you on this..


PS I'm after a D-550 if anyone wants to sell one
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Posted: 12 April 2012 02:40 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]  
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Thank you for your reply.

My D50 was repaired before. One of those 6 DRAM ICs (ic 1-6) was short connected to the ground accidentally and keyboard had gone off afterwards.

Having done this, my friend decided to change all the Dram chips and that had worked!
Keyboard came back to life with no errors till today that I found this bug.

Do you think that this malfunction is related to that accident?

Midi in and out are directly connected to D50's CPU. I believe that something is wrong with the CPU.

What do you think?

Ciao
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Posted: 12 April 2012 07:00 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]  
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Perhaps you've an older version of the Eprom within the D-50.
Mine is 2.10.

Hold INC & 0 (zero) while powering up to find out what your D-50 is..


Back to the sysex issue:

I was right, it is in the MIDI pages, it's on MIDI page 3.
Press the MIDI button, and use the next screen / patch edit button to advance to the next screen, and then again so the LCD reads:
MIDI-3 Hold Potra Prog.C Exclu

The last option "Exclu" can be set to Off, On, or P-dump
On P-dump when a patch is selected the D-50 will send sysex data for that patch. I suspect this is what has been causing the VST problem. If however this is set to Off, or On, then your guess is as good as mine...

It does sound as if your D-50 has been in the wars. How on earth can one of the DRAM chips get accidentally shorted to ground?
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Posted: 13 April 2012 01:00 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]  
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My ROM Version is 2.2 I think this is the latest ROM running on my gear!

Well the VST nightmare is solved. The problem was the unclean circuitry of the interface.Having cleaned it, now I can play VSTs without any problem.

But the Bulk Dump error is still there. In the MIDI PAGE 3 I tried changing the "Exclu" values and dumping the patch banks again with no success.

During this trial and errors once happened that I received the patch list in the pc and SYSEXD50 could display them. But the patch list was incomplete and patch names were incorrect (they were made up a mix of alphabet and asci characters !); and non of them was playable.

Neither a single patch can be uploaded from the keyboard; SysexD50 and D50 librarian always show the error message of the invalid data. It's driving me to the ceiling.

As for the short circuit, My friend was tampering the unit when he dropped a peace of soldering wire on the main board and he had forgotten to turn the keyboard off. Wire had connected a pin of those chips to the casing of the D50.
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Posted: 13 April 2012 05:51 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]  
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Well good news the VST problem is fixed, not so good regarding the dumping of data.

Can you tell me what MIDI interface you are using?


I hope your friend paid for the repair, an expensive mistake, and hopefully lesson learned.
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Posted: 14 April 2012 08:33 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]  
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I really appreciate your attention.

I have 2 different interfaces made by myself. The first one is a UART game/midi port (MPU401) and the second one is a USB-MIDI interface. I'm using this two devices for 3 years working with many gears including other D50s.

I will let you know if I can make it work.
Best regards
Ciro
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Posted: 15 April 2012 06:17 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]  
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You made your own interfaces?

I've never trusted gameport or those cheap n' nasty (tm) USB-to-MIDI leads you see on ebay.
However, if you have had success with other D-50's, then it would appear this D-50 is poorly. Perhaps the stray solder landed on other parts of the main board, not just the DRAM chips.

Have you checked out Chris Nightingales D-50 editor (search on the forum)?
It's pretty good, it's free, and according to one of his recent posts he's still adding features.

As a last ditch attempt to resolve this:
Press and hold "Data Transfer" plus "0" (zero) while powering up. It will initialize MIDI, and other function within the D-50. Patch data will be safe, factory sounds can only be reloaded with the original data card, or by MIDI.
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Posted: 15 April 2012 03:30 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]  
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Yes I do. They work pretty cool. I've already tried any software made for D50 with no success. Up coming data from this D50 is faulty and patch names are incorrect.

Once I had a V-synth XT and I wanted to dump it's patch data (of it's vc-1 of course) using the SysexD50 software which is designed for the original D50 and I saw such a result.i.e, patch names were not displayed correctly and they weren't playable.

I'm pretty confused and deciding to sell this gear out.
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Posted: 18 April 2012 06:14 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]  
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Hi Ciro,

I have started having a look at the sysex file you sent me - it's not pretty unfortunately. There are a lot of checksum problems which almosts indicates that it's failing to send all the bytes in each sysex packet. When looking at the alignment of the patch and tone names they aren't always offset by a constant amount either so it's not like I can always assume there are two bytes missing from each patch - it varies from anywhere between 1 and as much as 10 bytes.

I'm not sure what to do as it's not even that easy to tell where in the each patch the data is missing.

The only thing that would help identifying where the problem lies would be to take a known sysex file (e.g. factory sounds in D50-00 card), send it to the D-50 and then request it back into the D50 Librarian so the two files can be compared - but obviously that potentially means loosing the patches you have in your D-50 (unless you can store them to a RAM card)

Interestingly enough I just got myself a D-50 and noticed differences between that and my D-550 like when using the Send-One-Patch function, it's supposed to store the patch to the specified location (which it does on the D-550) but on the D-50 it never stores it (even with Memory Protect turned off) so when you move between patches you loose the voice - I guess most D-50 owners probably thought that was how it was supposed to work!!

Thanks,

Chris
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Posted: 08 October 2012 09:40 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]  
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Hello Chris

Something around four month ago, I opened this topic; Since then I tried many things to make my D50's MIDI OUT work again. I tried changing both of "working RAM (T-RAM)" chips, testing with other computers and Midi interfaces,... but no one helped.

Yesterday I noticed that the patch dump data up coming from my D50 are not intact.
Their normal size (for all 64 patches) should be 36,048 Kb but mine is 35,688.

I Sent the patches to MIDI OX, then I returned them to the gear. their names became unreadable and none of them sounded correctly. So I reloaded the keyboard with a correct patch file I had in my PC.

What it could be? This is really annoying because I can't store my costume made patches in the PC.
Best regards
Ciro
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Posted: 09 October 2012 07:41 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]  
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Hi Ciro,

I remember looking at one of the sysex files you sent me and as we concluded before, there isn't a nice pattern to the bad data so there isn't even a way of fixing the data up because we don't know where the missing data would normally appear. In addition to this the checksums don't match the data so it's not even that the D-50 thinks what it's sending is correct - it just loses some data when sending it out.

The reason the names appear unreadable is because of missing data so it's interpreting other data as the name and resulting in all sorts of garbage.

From the sounds of things you have ruled out it being the computer as you have tried other PCs and get the same results.

I assume that the problems you have are with the receipt of all patches in the D-50? Have you tried using the real-time editor in the D50 Librarian and requesting a single patch to see if that works (in case it's just a flaw in the sending of all patches (i.e. Bulk Dump)

I'm not really sure what to suggest. I have heard from a few other D-50 users who seem to be having similar problems.

I did an experiment with another D-50 who was having problems (can't remember who now) by creating a hand-shaking version of the the Bulk Dump Receipt as it was suggested that this might improve things. Sadly it made no difference.

Not that this really helps you but certainly for future work it's probably best to edit patches from the PC (i.e. via D50 Librarian) so that you can save them in the D50 Librarian and send them to the D-50 (which from the sounds of things you said seemed to then work).

The only other possibility would be to try another D-50 if you can get access to one. As I mentioned earlier, I picked up one running with the 2.10 OS and it's fine so I don't know if it's down to certain OS versions that don't work or just a random fault in the synth itself.

Thanks,

Chris.
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Posted: 04 November 2012 08:19 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]  
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Hello Chris,

At last I found it out what was the problem with my D50. Before,I should say that I had forgot to mention that my D50 was not sending midi on/off messages to the game/midi port properly. It used to neglect most of midi messages. I was looking at the schematics of the D50 and I saw a transistor in the jack board that was in connection with the pin 4 of the midi out jack. Having replaced that transistor it worked perfectly with the sound card midi port. But the midi dump problem was still there.
A week ago I met a professional keyboard repairman and he revealed me something pretty interesting about the D50. As I talked to him about the problem he ask me about the ROM version and told me that it's a common problem with the ROM ver 2.2. That was unbelievable! I swapped my D50's main board with the one he gave me with ROM ver 2.1 and it works like charm! I really wasn't expecting that. I'm so eager to know if there is anybody out there who has the same problem with the 2.2 ROM version.

Thank you again for your help.
Good luck
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Posted: 05 November 2012 01:34 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]  
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Hi there Ciro,

That's great that you managed to get your D-50 working - shame you had to resort to changing the OS version.

I have had a few people with high end version numbers who have problems with Sysex tranfers so I will certainly pass this useful information on to anyone in the same situation. Getting hold of v2.10 might be difficult as there are companies offering things like v2.22 which actually fixes bugs in v2.12.

Thanks,

Chris
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